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	<title>Comments on: [恠] Bakeneko・Youkai studies・Hagiology</title>
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	<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2010/01/03/bakeneko-youkai-studies-hagiography/</link>
	<description>Where beauty moves and wit delights</description>
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		<title>By: Wabisabi</title>
		<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2010/01/03/bakeneko-youkai-studies-hagiography/comment-page-1/#comment-2336</link>
		<dc:creator>Wabisabi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 11:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwanihana.info/?p=949#comment-2336</guid>
		<description>Tan:

Yes, I am aware of many nuances of 圣/聖. I think I can understand your point. 

And no worries, it&#039;s not like I have an agenda to convince anyone of anything. This blog is to me like a playground when I am not working. It has no purpose other than delighting in free play for the sake of free play. It&#039;s not like I am writing this up for school work. It&#039;s only play, so relax. ^-^

Yes, he does mention Inoue, among many others. 

ayame:

&gt; That reminded me of Howl’s moving castle and Sophie’s curse, which not only transformed her but also didn’t allow her to speak of her curse…

Oh yeah. That. Thanks for mentioning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tan:</p>
<p>Yes, I am aware of many nuances of 圣/聖. I think I can understand your point. </p>
<p>And no worries, it&#8217;s not like I have an agenda to convince anyone of anything. This blog is to me like a playground when I am not working. It has no purpose other than delighting in free play for the sake of free play. It&#8217;s not like I am writing this up for school work. It&#8217;s only play, so relax. ^-^</p>
<p>Yes, he does mention Inoue, among many others. </p>
<p>ayame:</p>
<p>> That reminded me of Howl’s moving castle and Sophie’s curse, which not only transformed her but also didn’t allow her to speak of her curse…</p>
<p>Oh yeah. That. Thanks for mentioning.</p>
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		<title>By: ayame</title>
		<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2010/01/03/bakeneko-youkai-studies-hagiography/comment-page-1/#comment-2334</link>
		<dc:creator>ayame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Meanwhile, part of the deal that mother and daughter struck with the dark powers is that they must never speak to anyone of why they turned into bakeneko…&quot;- That reminded me of Howl&#039;s moving castle and Sophie&#039;s curse, which not only transformed her but also didn&#039;t allow her to speak of her curse...

I think that speech in any mythology or religion is assuming a holy role. God created the world through his speech, Thoth in ancient Egypt made literacy (letters and speech)holy...so, perhaps by producing speech, which is holy, works against spells and demons?

I missed Kusuri Uri, by the way...

Very interesting assumption on the connection of youkai studies and hagiography. Well, both of them are under the big umbrella of folk studies, so it&#039;s only natural that some common characteristics might exist. After all saints like demons and youkai have a supernatural or better unearthy dimension. With Christdom demons were hardly ever mentioned in the form and variety of non-christianic demons, and that because, I assume, the Church didn&#039;t want to relate to paganism that much (although in the end they kept lots of paganistic elements). So, basically in their effort to show the God&#039;s power the gave emphasis on the saints&#039; supernatural manifestations (that came from God).

As to why &#039;sth holy of the heart&#039;, the explanation might be found on what was considered holy and unholy in that era and civilisation. 
That takes me to samans and Abraxas were holy and unholy were manifested in one essense, in one being. If holy is connected to spirits whether they are bene- or malevolent, then it means &#039;spirit in the heart&#039; (?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Meanwhile, part of the deal that mother and daughter struck with the dark powers is that they must never speak to anyone of why they turned into bakeneko…&#8221;- That reminded me of Howl&#8217;s moving castle and Sophie&#8217;s curse, which not only transformed her but also didn&#8217;t allow her to speak of her curse&#8230;</p>
<p>I think that speech in any mythology or religion is assuming a holy role. God created the world through his speech, Thoth in ancient Egypt made literacy (letters and speech)holy&#8230;so, perhaps by producing speech, which is holy, works against spells and demons?</p>
<p>I missed Kusuri Uri, by the way&#8230;</p>
<p>Very interesting assumption on the connection of youkai studies and hagiography. Well, both of them are under the big umbrella of folk studies, so it&#8217;s only natural that some common characteristics might exist. After all saints like demons and youkai have a supernatural or better unearthy dimension. With Christdom demons were hardly ever mentioned in the form and variety of non-christianic demons, and that because, I assume, the Church didn&#8217;t want to relate to paganism that much (although in the end they kept lots of paganistic elements). So, basically in their effort to show the God&#8217;s power the gave emphasis on the saints&#8217; supernatural manifestations (that came from God).</p>
<p>As to why &#8216;sth holy of the heart&#8217;, the explanation might be found on what was considered holy and unholy in that era and civilisation.<br />
That takes me to samans and Abraxas were holy and unholy were manifested in one essense, in one being. If holy is connected to spirits whether they are bene- or malevolent, then it means &#8216;spirit in the heart&#8217; (?)</p>
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		<title>By: Tan</title>
		<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2010/01/03/bakeneko-youkai-studies-hagiography/comment-page-1/#comment-2333</link>
		<dc:creator>Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 04:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wasn&#039;t 圣 or 聖 also used in the sense of wise/talented, not only &#039;holy,&#039; too? And doesn&#039;t 怪 not always mean strange or bizarre, but have the nuance of something not seldom seen, but not necessarily supernatural? I just don&#039;t find these types of breakdowns very convincing. I&#039;m not philologically inclined, I guess. But anyway. We must have very different takes on what a saint is, going by your comment ^^; 

Does the author discuss Inoue Enryō btw? I&#039;d be interested to hear if Kyōgoku Natsuhiko talks about him or his work at all....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasn&#8217;t 圣 or 聖 also used in the sense of wise/talented, not only &#8216;holy,&#8217; too? And doesn&#8217;t 怪 not always mean strange or bizarre, but have the nuance of something not seldom seen, but not necessarily supernatural? I just don&#8217;t find these types of breakdowns very convincing. I&#8217;m not philologically inclined, I guess. But anyway. We must have very different takes on what a saint is, going by your comment ^^; </p>
<p>Does the author discuss Inoue Enryō btw? I&#8217;d be interested to hear if Kyōgoku Natsuhiko talks about him or his work at all&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Wabisabi</title>
		<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2010/01/03/bakeneko-youkai-studies-hagiography/comment-page-1/#comment-2332</link>
		<dc:creator>Wabisabi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 22:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwanihana.info/?p=949#comment-2332</guid>
		<description>Tan:

Yes, of course I am aware that there is a thing called &quot;folklore studies&quot; and 99% of people, looking at the surface of things, would group &quot;youkai studies&quot; under &quot;folklore studies&quot;. 

But I was not talking about categorization, but a gut feeling about the essence/nature of A and B. Do you not wonder why 怪 is written as “something holy of the heart”? There is something about the essence/nature of saints that strikes me as similar as youkai. I cannot totally explain this gut feeling yet. There is really nothing much one can do with a gut feeling like that except to read, speculate, read some more and speculate some more - even if it means you are going outside your comfort zone and saying things outside people&#039;s comfort zone.

I must say there are some interesting revelations from Kyōgoku Natsuhiko&#039;s book in that area though. Perhaps I will write more on that once I finish it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tan:</p>
<p>Yes, of course I am aware that there is a thing called &#8220;folklore studies&#8221; and 99% of people, looking at the surface of things, would group &#8220;youkai studies&#8221; under &#8220;folklore studies&#8221;. </p>
<p>But I was not talking about categorization, but a gut feeling about the essence/nature of A and B. Do you not wonder why 怪 is written as “something holy of the heart”? There is something about the essence/nature of saints that strikes me as similar as youkai. I cannot totally explain this gut feeling yet. There is really nothing much one can do with a gut feeling like that except to read, speculate, read some more and speculate some more &#8211; even if it means you are going outside your comfort zone and saying things outside people&#8217;s comfort zone.</p>
<p>I must say there are some interesting revelations from Kyōgoku Natsuhiko&#8217;s book in that area though. Perhaps I will write more on that once I finish it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tan</title>
		<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2010/01/03/bakeneko-youkai-studies-hagiography/comment-page-1/#comment-2330</link>
		<dc:creator>Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwanihana.info/?p=949#comment-2330</guid>
		<description>If you look at the practices of researchers like Yanagita Kunio, though, I think folklore studies (or critique of modernity if you take Figal&#039;s argument in Civilization and Monsters [1999]) is much closer to youkai studies than hagiography. There are distinctly Protestant strains of hagiography too, like in Foxe&#039;s Book of Martyrs, so hagiography strikes me as not the most apt fit. If this topic interests you, you might find the Figal book interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you look at the practices of researchers like Yanagita Kunio, though, I think folklore studies (or critique of modernity if you take Figal&#8217;s argument in Civilization and Monsters [1999]) is much closer to youkai studies than hagiography. There are distinctly Protestant strains of hagiography too, like in Foxe&#8217;s Book of Martyrs, so hagiography strikes me as not the most apt fit. If this topic interests you, you might find the Figal book interesting.</p>
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