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	<title>Comments on: [縁] Meaningful chance</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.iwanihana.info/2009/03/28/meaningful-chance-in-passing-fancy-skip-beat-and-ai-no-kusabi/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2009/03/28/meaningful-chance-in-passing-fancy-skip-beat-and-ai-no-kusabi/</link>
	<description>Where beauty moves and wit delights</description>
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		<title>By: Wabisabi</title>
		<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2009/03/28/meaningful-chance-in-passing-fancy-skip-beat-and-ai-no-kusabi/comment-page-1/#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator>Wabisabi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 04:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwanihana.info/?p=61#comment-81</guid>
		<description>chanpon:

Thank you kindly. I think that sums up the Chinese &quot;yuan&quot; well. ^-^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>chanpon:</p>
<p>Thank you kindly. I think that sums up the Chinese &#8220;yuan&#8221; well. ^-^</p>
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		<title>By: chanpon</title>
		<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2009/03/28/meaningful-chance-in-passing-fancy-skip-beat-and-ai-no-kusabi/comment-page-1/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>chanpon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 03:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Your post had me thinking about the context of &quot;yuan&quot; as I&#039;ve seen it in Chinese, and the concept and differentiation I keep going back to is perhaps that &quot;yuan&quot; as I&#039;ve heard it used (and use it myself) seems to emphasize the meeting and the journey taken in that relationship, while &quot;ming yun&quot; seems to emphasize the destination or resulting end of the relationship.

You mentioned the chance meeting, which is always the start of the relationship whether between two lovers, teacher and student, or even a child to parents.  But the time spent and the evolution of that relationship should to be taken into account, not just the initial encounter.  Yuan jin itself implies that yuan has run its course, so the idea of passage of time (regardless of time) in yuan seems important.  Strong yuan might make for a longer time together with lives truly intertwining, while light yuan may be your just running into someone on a train with whom you have 20 minute conversation - but the would be considered yuan nonetheless.

Ming yun on the other hand, I suppose, can refer to the end state when yuan jin is reached, though it seems to be used almost exclusively to heighten drama around an incident.  In all, the idea of fate, is certainly present in both, though the English concept seems to lack the subtlety present in the Chinese (and Japanese) terms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your post had me thinking about the context of &#8220;yuan&#8221; as I&#8217;ve seen it in Chinese, and the concept and differentiation I keep going back to is perhaps that &#8220;yuan&#8221; as I&#8217;ve heard it used (and use it myself) seems to emphasize the meeting and the journey taken in that relationship, while &#8220;ming yun&#8221; seems to emphasize the destination or resulting end of the relationship.</p>
<p>You mentioned the chance meeting, which is always the start of the relationship whether between two lovers, teacher and student, or even a child to parents.  But the time spent and the evolution of that relationship should to be taken into account, not just the initial encounter.  Yuan jin itself implies that yuan has run its course, so the idea of passage of time (regardless of time) in yuan seems important.  Strong yuan might make for a longer time together with lives truly intertwining, while light yuan may be your just running into someone on a train with whom you have 20 minute conversation &#8211; but the would be considered yuan nonetheless.</p>
<p>Ming yun on the other hand, I suppose, can refer to the end state when yuan jin is reached, though it seems to be used almost exclusively to heighten drama around an incident.  In all, the idea of fate, is certainly present in both, though the English concept seems to lack the subtlety present in the Chinese (and Japanese) terms.</p>
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		<title>By: Wabisabi</title>
		<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2009/03/28/meaningful-chance-in-passing-fancy-skip-beat-and-ai-no-kusabi/comment-page-1/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Wabisabi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 10:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwanihana.info/?p=61#comment-49</guid>
		<description>ayame:

For MoG, I vaguely recall something about &quot;on&quot; (恩) - as in Sayuri thinks of him as her &quot;onjin&quot; (恩人), because he had shown her kindness when she was young and helpless... But then again, it is only what I vaguely recall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ayame:</p>
<p>For MoG, I vaguely recall something about &#8220;on&#8221; (恩) &#8211; as in Sayuri thinks of him as her &#8220;onjin&#8221; (恩人), because he had shown her kindness when she was young and helpless&#8230; But then again, it is only what I vaguely recall.</p>
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		<title>By: ayame</title>
		<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2009/03/28/meaningful-chance-in-passing-fancy-skip-beat-and-ai-no-kusabi/comment-page-1/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>ayame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>sorry- in samurai x movie of kenshin it&#039;s not enishi that is mentioned rather the concept of &quot;human justice instead of divine&quot; (I don&#039;t remember the japanese word). I confused the person called Enishi with the concept.
But in memoirs of a geisha there is a definition, but not in the movie. In the book. It is mentioned near the end if I remember well and was referring to Nobou as her en. Unfortunately I can&#039;t find the quote now neither in book nor in internet...If someone has better memory than me, please refresh our memory...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry- in samurai x movie of kenshin it&#8217;s not enishi that is mentioned rather the concept of &#8220;human justice instead of divine&#8221; (I don&#8217;t remember the japanese word). I confused the person called Enishi with the concept.<br />
But in memoirs of a geisha there is a definition, but not in the movie. In the book. It is mentioned near the end if I remember well and was referring to Nobou as her en. Unfortunately I can&#8217;t find the quote now neither in book nor in internet&#8230;If someone has better memory than me, please refresh our memory&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Wabisabi</title>
		<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2009/03/28/meaningful-chance-in-passing-fancy-skip-beat-and-ai-no-kusabi/comment-page-1/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>Wabisabi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 04:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwanihana.info/?p=61#comment-45</guid>
		<description>ayame:

I read the manga of Kenshin and watched the movie of MoG ages ago, but cannot recall any definition of enishi. (But then it could just be me growing old and forgetful). 

Yes, I think determinism is similar to enishi. You don&#039;t hear the term &quot;determinism&quot; spoken in everyday conversation in English, though enishi is every much a part of everyday conversation in Chinese and Japanese.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ayame:</p>
<p>I read the manga of Kenshin and watched the movie of MoG ages ago, but cannot recall any definition of enishi. (But then it could just be me growing old and forgetful). </p>
<p>Yes, I think determinism is similar to enishi. You don&#8217;t hear the term &#8220;determinism&#8221; spoken in everyday conversation in English, though enishi is every much a part of everyday conversation in Chinese and Japanese.</p>
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		<title>By: ayame</title>
		<link>http://www.iwanihana.info/2009/03/28/meaningful-chance-in-passing-fancy-skip-beat-and-ai-no-kusabi/comment-page-1/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>ayame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 08:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwanihana.info/?p=61#comment-44</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not good at defining things but why don&#039;t you take a look at the way rurouni kenshin (X) and memoirs of a geisha define enishi? I&#039;m sure there is a definition given there.
Very interesting the word pun in ai no kusabi- yet I didn&#039;t quite understand what the slongan means...
Sth I want to ask: unmei is what we say &quot;written&quot; and enishi is closer to what we call determinismus?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not good at defining things but why don&#8217;t you take a look at the way rurouni kenshin (X) and memoirs of a geisha define enishi? I&#8217;m sure there is a definition given there.<br />
Very interesting the word pun in ai no kusabi- yet I didn&#8217;t quite understand what the slongan means&#8230;<br />
Sth I want to ask: unmei is what we say &#8220;written&#8221; and enishi is closer to what we call determinismus?</p>
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